Posts by zen nudist

78

Research on the validity of 1914

by Bluegrass Tom in

here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

zen nudist

Therefore, if Jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place? When does the 2,520 years start? 1914 can't be correct. 1914 is based on 607, and 607 is only mathematical, not actual. 586 is the real date.

what 2520 years? the WT made this up out of thin air, there is absolutely nothing anywhere in the bible that gives this figure.

JWs invented this from a warped and twisted reading of a prophecy which is explained by the bible relating ONLY to the king of babylon and not to anyone or anything else.... a bit of poetic license on JWs part to fit an already existing pyramid calculation which happened to be 40 years from Jesus invisible return in 1874... back then when Russell first dreamed up this fantasy prophetic calculation, they had three different methods which all PROVED beyond a shadow of a doubt that the world would END in 1914 and Jesus would BEGIN ruling the world as the Gentile times would thus be over.

guess what..... it was all delusional fantasizing of a man who thought himself a prophet of God.... believing he had all the correct answers and all the churches of the world needed to come to him to learn.... most of his stuff is now considered apostate material still taught by some of his true followers the millenial dawn bible students and a host of other splinter groups who emerged after Rutherford Stormed the tower.

39

The Top 3 Things A Witness Can Never Understand

by metatron in

jw
friends

facts and reality can get so distorted in the witness subculture that huge blind spots.

are created.

as the current saying goes, "they just don't get it".

zen nudist

I struggled with this idea - still do. I liked having all the answers given to me. It was hard coming to the realization that most of the answers I had were wrong - and that I would have to search it out myself and try to find the answer. But it is in that one realization that I began to grow.

some questions cannot be answered, many answers cannot be verified, and all answers can be questioned.

for each answer you can often think up ten new questions, so the more you learn the less you actually know.

69

I'm not a Buddhist, but...............PART 2

by Dansk in

jw
friends

as i can't post to the original thread started by nicolaou, i'm doing so here:.

hi fleur,but the part that really, well, frankly creeped me out for lack of a better term, is that he left his wife and child, then starved himself nearly to death before he realized that this wasn't the way to go, and he lived as a homeless person, begging food as he went on his path to enlightenment.

that's a rather simplified version of events.

zen nudist

while not a buddhist, personally, my views are not that far from some buddhists schools.

I do not agree with all things modern buddhists believe nor in all things buddha taught.

some may be because it is not always easy to understand what someone living in 2500bce was actually talking about

after it has been interpreted and translated over time....

just like christianity, those who came after read their own experiences into the words and came up with their own view of things which made buddhism mutate and evolve....

as was said earlier, what is important is to find out for yourself.... confirm all beliefs by experience and understanding rather than dogmatic acceptance.

10

The Truth or the Way ??? Just a thought

by blueztunez in

jw
friends

i don't bother to query the "brothers" about their doctrine any longer i just get the old run around (not so here) so my question or rather statement is this.

the truth (i feel) is in the bible and well the jw's do use the text to some degree but why oh why are they not in "the way" as the first century christians called their beliefs ?

"the way" being a practice of christian beliefs\values ect .

zen nudist

Jesus was plainly saying that he was the way, the truth, and the life. There is no need to interpret, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." It is a clear statement.

it seems to me that when most christians say this or quote it, they indicate that Jesus is some idol that people can bow to and its all done... but if someone in that time period said they were THE WAY.... they meant they were the ROAD to travel, their life was to be followed... as THE WAY, not just accept that they existed and a smile in their direction is what matters now.... Jesus said pick up your crosses and follow me... a pretty harsh thing to say back then equivelant to.... I am headed to death row, you coming?

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

zen nudist

According to the Bible, faith is based in rational thought applied to evidence as a means to presuppose the uncertain. Hebrew 11:1 is the only definition of faith in the Bible. By to that definition, faith is the "evidence" (greek: elegchos; literally: proof) of things not seen, and the basis for or substance of hope.

my interpretation of this is :

Now [ your ] faith is the substance of things hoped for [not yet existing in the present moment], the evidence [to others] of things not seen [by them].

in other words, your faith [a gamble on a story you have come to believe because you trust the source.] is shown to others by your living your beliefs despite the fact that there is no actual evidence to show your way is right or true at this time.

which matches what James said-- faith without works is dead. [since you cannot demonstrate your belief to others if your life is not matching your claims.]

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

zen nudist

faith is a gamble on a rumor which defies the evidence.... otherwise it would be knowledge.

I find it interesting that honest people in daily interactions don't require much faith from the people they deal with.

if an honest person wants to sell his car, he lets the buyer kick the tires, drive it around the block, have a mechanic look at it....

but con artists and liars require, nay, demand faith of their mark to hide their deceptions and lack of valuable products...they belittle doubters and mock those who challenge their bald lies....

most religion can be summed up by the old story called the Emperors new clothes.... a story with a moral lost on many.

why should any real God play con artist games of faith rather than simply and undeniable reveal himself to all people and not just to obscure prophets whose ranting and ravings one must accept or face eternal torment etc.??

18

Does God Really Care

by Undecided in

.

when i read of the many natural calamities that have killed billions of people over the centuries i wonder if god is interested at all?

when i see the importance that the bible makes of just one death of god's sons, when he was resurrected and given a higher position just 3 days later, what about all those millions of human sons.. i guess we are like an ant hill to god, if you happen to step on it, who cares.. ken p.

zen nudist

MY GOD cares, because MY GOD, the Generator Of Diversity, is all of us, actively conscious caring parts together as one whole and we collectively do care about many things in many ways.... does all of GOD care? no, just as your toes do not care about your liver... nor do your bones care about your nose....

I find no other GOD but the totality of reality, and no conscious living being can tell me that caring is absent from this whole without lying.

35

Benny Hinn - DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES?

by William Penwell in

just watched a documentary about benny hinn ministry, i can't believe anyone is that gullible to believe this crap.

not only is he a fraud but he is also a crook, taking money from poor susceptible people.

he also sure likes to live the high life to.

zen nudist

At the core of this man is a belief in his own psychotic lies. From there it is easy to bury the rest of his nauseating theatrical charade in the dubious ethics of his business world. These people should all be prosecuted for prostituting the hopes of thousands of poor and helpless sick people who cling to them for a last chance of hope.

my god daughter's grandmother was a TV minister for a while and she personally has been to Benny Hinn's home and eaten with his family. She knows that religion is mostly BS [belief systems] but had no doubt that he genuinely believes his own BS [belief system]. This matched what the HBO special shows as well.

try to remember when you were CONviNcED into thinking your BS [belief system] was THE TRUTH.... how many times did you tell others things you had doubts about but because of believing the over all let it slide?

its real easy to get cynical and think everyone shepherd knows he is a predator fleecing and slaughtering his sheep....but when I was a believer I did not see myself that way, and a great number of you bitter whiners probably did not either.

43

Why does God let bad things happen?

by FMZ in

this question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?

also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.

i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.

zen nudist

if we can call the stuff which has always been [assuming something cannot arise from nothing], GOD, then we can see that 1. GOD did not create GOD, GOD did not create the nature or will of GOD....

that reality or GOD is conscious, can there be any doubt? each person is a self answering testimony to the fact that at least some part of reailty is conscious....

while there seems no escape to the conclusion that one past has lead to this very present and the prospect of more than one future is likely nill.... each of us seems to have some part on how the unfolding reality actually occurs. our desires and hopes and plans do not violate the single unfolding but are part of it.... while some call this freewill, I see that is as a poor labelling of what is going on. it is clear that our ability to feel pain and pleasure causes us to care about which way things happen and that caring in turn alters how we gamble with each move presented to us...but that does not mean anything truly free is going on in the sense of more than one actual outcome manifesting from our collective actions... we are as free as it matters to us, but certainly, as in the case of GOD above, we did not make our nature nor our structure which carries out our desires dreams and plans. We do not so much chose things out of our enviorment based on our willed desires, but on our discovered desires. no one choses to like chocolate over vanilla, they discover it.... no one choses how strongly cocaine attracts them, they discover it.... when given a set of options, we gamble upon which ever option most strongly excites our system which is a discovery, or we let a randomizer work, such as flipping a coin.... which removes our will from the equation altogether.

in a simple question: if your actions have causes, where is the freedom? when uncaused and random, where is the will?

without the myth of freewill there is no good nor evil which arises by comparison of what people do to some arbitrary ideal fantasy of what someone assumes they could have done otherwise... same is true for any god[s].

if an all knowing god exists, then his damnation of some acts by comparison to what he knows is a lie [a false alternative to what he actually knows], then this god is insane.

43

Why does God let bad things happen?

by FMZ in

this question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?

also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.

i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.

zen nudist

the first Matrix was a utopian paradise, but "entire crops
were lost" because people wouldn't accept the programming.

life is dynamic, there is no good nor evil to reality until the living compare reailty to their own fantasy ideals and goals.

which is the point of the tree of knowledge.... earth was paradise prior to eating of the tree [making up fantasy ideals].